Jeffrey Bale
- Ray Davison
- May 2, 2019
- 11 min read
Perhaps you know who Jeffrey Bale is, and perhaps you don't.
To be honest if you're in the latter group I'm fairly certain pity is what I feel for you, mixed with a pinch of disappointment. A Social Studies refresher might be in order.
The musically inclined multitudes almost certainly recognize the Maximumrocknroll label. Despite its age the moniker still circulates through the underground bloodstream; an Orwellian catchphrase injected in the collapsing veins of modern society that has achieved the same repetitive utterance all popular junk thrives upon.
A few of the more pointy-headed punkies even comprehend the origins of the whole works: an auspicious newsprint-grade magazine first born in the womb of an early-80's vinyl album, or a dilapidated warehouse on the outskirts of Albany at the corner of Eighth Street and Gilman.
Despite an obvious cultural addiction to the musical phenomena, by all accounts fewer today still remember the affiliated music program being simultaneously syndicated at a variety of college and public radio stations across the country, or the many people who built the foundations of the mechanization that now is MRR. The masses remain hooked on the MRR 'zine image injection. A room full of bobbleheads will sing for you at the mantric mention of "924" but discussions of the listener sponsored radio program are greeted by curious grinning clueless yet authoritative scenesters with gravy glazed eyes and blank windows for brains.
It would appear most people don't know and if indications are accurate nobody really cares.
An effortless critical tirade over context could be interjected regarding the irony of something founded in musicality that grew tone deaf but evolved graphically ever after; that however would be a detraction from the article that presumably brought you here.
Instead I will summarily reiterate if you don't know who Jeffery Bale is, you're pretty fucking pitiful.
With that in mind I will allow you to get acquainted with your ignorance while I get my cup of coffee and share a Q/A with one of the last independent thinkers of your time.
Given the current condition of our species, I won't be surprised if you still can't remember who I am talking about.
Jeffrey Bale thanks so much for taking time for this interview! I'm curious what you've been doing with yourself these post-radio days. I noticed you've been lecturing, and I believe you went on to become an educator, won't you please elaborate?
I got my B.A. in Middle Eastern, Islamic, and Central Asian history from the University of Michigan, where I also studied Arabic and Farsi, then got my Ph.D. in Modern European history from the University of California at Berkeley. Since then, I’ve held a number of postdoctoral fellowships (including at Columbia University and the Library of Congress), turned down some tenure-track job offers at places I didn’t want to end up, held some temporary academic appointments (including at UC Irvine), and eventually – after the 9/11 attacks – got a long term job at a small graduate school in the Monterey Peninsula, where I teach in the Nonproliferation and Terrorism Studies Program. For four decades, I have been studying terrorism and other assorted political and religious extremists (including European neo-fascists, apocalyptic millenarian cults, pagans, occultists, Islamists and jihadist terrorists, the American radical right, “left-hand path” Satanists, etc.), as well as covert political operations, state terrorism, counterinsurgency, and the potential threat posed by chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear materials and weapons. Of course, having been a member of some of them for five decades, I’m also very interested in rock’n’roll-oriented youth subcultures and countercultures. My final book will combine my lifelong interests in extremism and r’n’r.
Well here's a question you used to get rather often! What's on the playlist for you lately? Looks like you've been checking out a lot of the classic garage stuff, anybody new and promising on the horizon? While we're there, what's the latest book to make your reading list?
My playlist is considerably more expansive than it used to be. I’ve been a fan of primitive r’n’r since the age of 12, in particular hard-edged beat (i.e., British Invasion), ‘60’s garage, early psychedelia (when it was still rockin’), proto-punk (i.e., the Velvet Underground, Stooges, MC5), some hard rock, glam, ’77-era punk and pop punk, streetpunk (Oi), powerpop, punk’n’roll, beach punk (e.g., bands like the Simpletones and the Crowd), fuzzed-out shoegaze (e.g., the Jesus and Mary Chain), ‘90’s Britpop, and combinations and derivations of those subgenres. I also like surf and rockabilly/early r’n’r music. In recent years, I’ve gotten much more into certain subgenres of metal (e.g., glam metal, atmospheric black metal, doom metal, pagan folk metal, etc.), which I stupidly used to dismiss a priori because I hated mainstream metal with those horrid falsetto vocals so much. For about five years in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s, I really liked thrash-style punk (i.e., hardcore), but that was the one subgenre of r’n’r that I liked which did not stand the test of time. Now I find it almost unlistenable, and can’t imagine how or why I previously liked it. Fortunately, I’m always on the lookout for great new r’n’r bands, so I’m not one of those nostalgics who is living in past eras of my life. As for books, there are far too many to mention. I read lots of horror fiction, mysteries, noir, and some sci-fi, and tons of specialized, scholarly non-fiction books on history, politics, warfare, etc. Also, of course, books on r’n’r. In recent years, some excellent academic studies have appeared on punk rock, as well as lots of books by insiders.
Personally I am very much an analog guy so I love when I see images of record albums on social media feeds. Everything is uploaded today, but I notice there is a resurgence in vinyl coming around. Have you noticed this yourself? With things going (or should I say gone) digital, what's your preferred medium these days? You can gear-geek here a bit if you like, if you have a favorite turntable you're using or preferred output (speakers).
I gave up on vinyl decades ago. I sold almost all of my vinyl records, and replaced 95% of them on CD. Now I have a vast CD collection, and only a few vinyl records that haven’t been released on CD. Personally, I can’t stand “vinyl fetishists,” i.e., people who only like vinyl and/or who only release stuff on vinyl. Since I think that properly mastered CDs nowadays sound better than vinyl, unlike the early CDs, I make it a policy never to buy vinyl-only releases. Fuck those elitist snobs, who are too stupid to realize that there are lots of big collectors who have moved away from vinyl.
On that same note, I'm out of the loop and curious your opinion on where the best live acts are playing in the Bay Area. Presume you were taking some guests for a night out; a few rounds and a good show, what's good to drink, and where would we go?
In my opinion, the Bay Area r’n’r scene has been in decline for some time, especially in terms of good venues, several of which have recently closed. The best remaining venues, such as Thee Parkside, are now having less and less gigs overall, and certainly less and less that I’m interested in going to. Bottom of the Hill features mainly boring college rock bands, although occasionally they have some good r’n’r shows. There are still lots of good underground bands in the Bay Area, especially neo-psychedelic bands, but the scene in SF itself is dying, in part because of the increasingly astronomical cost of living. I think there is a lot more happening now, r’n’r-wise, in the East Bay. Downtown Oakland now features a number of cool dive bars and r’n’r venues. At this point, I would say that I see more live gigs in San Jose than anywhere else.
After as much exposure as you've had to music, I'm curious if you play an instrument, or if you've ever had the desire and if so what would it be? If you countered that a microphone in combination with the human voice is in fact an instrument, I would have to say check, and mate.
When I was a teenager, I briefly owned a Guild bass guitar. But I lacked the discipline to practice enough to get good playing it. Perhaps I spent too much listening to records, and not enough learning to play music! Of course, I was the singer in a couple of garagey bands. Sadly, I don’t really have a good voice, although I can be a charismatic front man and provocateur.
Someone far greater than me came to the conclusion that if you want to really understand a culture, study the music. When I look I see a landscape that ranges from the shame of Milli Vanilli to the innovation of the New World Order release featuring Noam Chomsky backed with Bad Religion, and remained basically unchanged just became slicker at marketing. Looking back over the past twenty or so years of culture and politics in America, do you think anything has changed either way in regard to integrity and musical influence, for better or worse?
That’s a very complex question, and I’m not sure how to answer it. What I will say is that countercultures used to arise in protest against a more conservative society and political establishment. But now that “progressivism” has become hegemonic in the cultural sphere (e.g., in the educational system, in the mainstream media, in Hollywood, in NGOs, within USG agencies, and even in some areas of the corporate sphere like Silicon Valley), more and more manifestations of counterculture – including underground r’n’r scenes – are arising today that are openly opposed to it, as well as to the destructive policies promoted by globalist elites. That’s not only understandable but in many respects desirable, as far as I’m concerned. Self-styled “progressives” are no longer “fighting the Man, maaaan,” despite their ridiculous self-image as “revolutionaries” – they have in fact become the Man that real rebels should be resisting and fighting against. In short, I dislike the “new Man” (“progressives”) every bit as much as I’ve always disliked the “old Man” (social and cultural conservatives), since both try to impose their puritanical moral agendas on everyone else by engaging in censorship and the non-stop vilification of their designated “enemies.” Fuck them all.
In addition to the number of recent departures due to illness, recent news of the death of Tom Guido has left many people shaken up. You seemed to relate to the Purple Onion days so I thought I would ask if you had an anecdote you felt like sharing; and if not, just perhaps your perspective on Tom and his influence on the Bay Area music scene.
You know, it would be hard for me to recall a single vignette about Tom. I went to dozens of gigs at the Purple Onion, where I regularly saw Tom’s weirdness in action. So my main recollection, apart from the many great bands I saw there, was Tom getting annoyed and laying weird raps on the audience from the stage. At times, it was really entertaining. Sometimes not so much. I also really miss the Chatterbox, another great r’n’r venue that sadly is no more.
In music culture it has always been popular to fly the finger at the establishment; recently bands like Anti Flag have taken this to a new level, outright declaring the U.S.A. as supporting terrorism. Do you think there is any truth to this allegation or are these new kids just being explosive for the sake of shocking the public, and therefore the sales figures?
I think bands like Anti-Flag are mindlessly peddling the generic, knee-jerk, anti-American Chomskyite worldview, without having any deep understanding of the underlying historical and political contexts. Has the U.S. supported various unsavory regimes that were involved in campaigns of state terrorism in regions like Latin America? Certainly. But, whether one likes it or not, there are very few powerful international or regional regimes that have not done similar or much worse things when they considered their vital national security interests to be threatened. Generally, during the Cold War, the U.S. and its allies supported regimes and guerrillas that were fighting against guerrillas and regimes that were being supported by the Soviet Union and its allies. This was geopolitical Realpolitik, the standard behavior of major states throughout history. In retrospect, lots of mistakes were made and lots of human rights violations were the result. But was the U.S. uniquely villainous in this regard? Hardly.
The general social climate of America seems to have changed over time. Tolerance and acceptance of norms has evolved, or in some cases devolved. Do you think bands face the same sort of threats and obstacles for being politically outspoken as they did in the 80's and early 90's?
The only bands that nowadays face threats or obstacles to playing are those which so-called “antifas” label as “fascist,” usually without justification. At this point in time, radical leftists are the primary societal elements in the U.S. and western Europe who are doing their best to suppress or censor anyone whose views they disagree with, including through the use of violence. (Islamists excepted, of course, given that they have no problem murdering people for “blasphemy.”) I can’t think of any “progressive” or left-wing r’n’r band that anyone in the West has tried to censor or keep from playing in recent decades. (The situation in some non-Western countries can be different.) There may be some Christian right moralists somewhere in America who have tried to get local r’n’r gigs canceled for political reasons, but I don’t know of any recent examples.
I wanted to touch on the old days of radio with Maximum RockNRoll if I might. I'm sure it is no secret that Tim and KPFA are what mostly kept you in radio. What drew you in the direction of radio broadcasting to begin with?
I was never interested in radio broadcasting per se. I was an obsessive collector of underground r’n’r records, including punk records, so it was only natural that Tim would invite me onto the MRR radio show to play some sets. Also, because I’m not overly shy. And, being a music fan who wanted to turn other people onto the music I loved, I was perfectly happy to do that.
I can imagine the first answer you would give is Tim Yo, but other than Tim who had the greatest influence on you as a young broadcaster? Would you get involved with radio again today if you had the opportunity, and why or why not?
Again, I never saw myself as a “broadcaster.” So I can’t say that anyone ever influenced me in that regard. I myself have not listened to music on the radio for many decades (except, occasionally, to online podcasts of Little Steven’s garage show, or the shows by friends like Tim Stegall or Terry Nelson), since I have virtually everything I might want to listen to in my own collection.
I thought it was Dirk Dirksen who first started calling you Jumping Jeff but it might have been Jello Biafra; I think it has been implied that you and Jello had a bit of a love hate relationship at times, at least on the job. Can you recall how you earned this nickname?
To be honest with you, I can’t even remember the origin of that nickname. It just sounded funny because it was so ridiculous. And Jello and I never had a “love-hate relationship.” We were friends who liked to tease each other, just like Tim and I were and like Tim and Jello were.
Back in the KPFA days tensions at the radio station over the blend of political and artistic content became points of contention. Do you think this was just a unique dynamic of the MRR show personalities? Can underground music and politics live in the same place?
After years of reflection, in my opinion it was a terrible mistake to try and introduce sectarian politics of any kind into underground r’n’r scenes. Music-oriented subcultures and countercultures are big tent collections of diverse, eccentric people who are alienated from mainstream society and/or authority figures. That’s the psychological predisposition that their members all share in common, and they can all relate to and get along with each other on that basis. But whenever dimwitted, dogmatic activists try to politicize these milieus, it inevitably creates internal divisions, friction, and conflicts, and will inevitably end up generating counter reactions. If sectarian leftists try to infiltrate and politicize such scenes, as they did the early punk scene in the UK, it will not only lead to internal resistance but also induce sectarian rightists to do likewise. Then you will end up with a polarized and perhaps even violently contested sub- or counterculture. I mean, look at all of the rival (and often absurd) factions that eventually emerged within the punk scene – anarcho-punks, peace punks, communist punks, Nazi punks/skins, drunk and drug punks, straightedge punks, atheist punks, Christian punks, Krsna punks, militant vegan punks, riot grrrls, violent punk street gangs, and the list goes on and on and on. What’s the point? The attitude adopted by people within these r’n’r scenes should be “live and let live,” as opposed to trying to bully or force other people within the scene to think exactly the same way as they do. What’s the point of rebelling against larger societal rules and then stupidly recreating even more restrictive and repressive internal scene rules? The goal should be to promote maximum individual freedom and to encourage the breaking down of taboos – all taboos. Not to erect new rules and taboos that are even more odious.
Before we leave that neighborhood, care to share a tale from the Tim Yohannon days that we've not heard yet?
Not really. I’ve done some interviews recently where I’ve shared such tales. I can’t really think of anything more to say.
And that's a wrap. There now don't you feel better informed? Yeah that's what I figured.
How about we close with this nice little ditty by The Meatmen extolling the glamorous life just waiting for you in the wonderful world of broadcasting.
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